The information you keep referring to is not “new”. No law enforcement agency in this country is responsible to educate you (or anyone else for that matter) concerning any laws or regulations, or what source of information they use when investigating a case Instead, they are solely tasked with enforcing the laws & regulations as mandated to them. It is always incumbent upon YOU to be educated about the law, and ignorance of the law is not a viable excuse. Your perception of what the BATF’s responsibility is to you (and any other dealer) is sadly misguided. Why ignore this information that legally impacts many collectors and dealers? On their site, they continually publish new information regarding firearm regulations and enforcement. If they are going to enforce numbers based on new information, new even to them, they should have an obligation to inform the public. ATF is certainly aware of the long accepted Madis numbers, and the information published by Winchester. They use the long accepted, even by ATF, numbers provided by Madis and displayed by Winchester on their site. The vast majority of collectors and dealers I talk with have never heard of polishing room numbers. So that law abiding collectors and dealers will have the information necessary to obey the law. The BATF refers to the manufacture date as the point in time when the firearm or receiver becomes a “trackable” or “traceable” item… i.e. #ANTIQUE FIREARM SERIAL NUMBERS SERIAL NUMBER#However, there is no need to limit yourself to that “later” date when the serial number application date is perfectly legal. You are correct in that using the completion date will keep you from having any legal quarrels with the BATF. I’ll try to find my source(s) but if one uses the completion date one can never go awry of the BATFE since the completion date is by definition always later than the serial number applied date, or the order date or the in house date. Intentionally violating federal law and trying to claim ignorance of same is just flat out stupid in my opinion. Yes, many dealers still use the Madis dates, but only because it benefits them to do so, and while the BATF may or may not pursue (nitpick) the issue, they certainly could do so at any time they want to. The federal law does not state or refer to a firearm’s completion date as the date of manufacture! You are dead wrong if you believe what you wrote in the following quoted statement Īdditionally, since the legal date is the date “completed” they would actually have to get a Cody letter to find the date shipped, not the date the serial number was applied. I suspect that your “sources” are not reliable. Hove some fun reading these posts from # 11 on: Additionally, since the legal date is the date “completed” they would actually have to get a Cody letter to find the date shipped, not the date the serial number was applied. I don’t think they (BATFE) are going to nitpick over a couple of years one way or the other (unless you are a notorious criminal like Capone that they want to get anyway possible) when it comes to the dual dates for Winchester. Many gun dealers use the Madis numbers and ship to FFL’s or individuals accordingly. I have heard from numerous sources that BATFE uses the Madis numbers, but the law specifically refers to the date when the gun was completed, not when it was started. Is there a phone number I could reach you at?īureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives I am an ATF agent in Tucson, Arizona, and I am attempting to determine the DOM of a Winchester, model 1894, 30-30 rifle, SN: 344457. He then requested an e-copy of my published table, which I provided to him. I explained to him that I had personally examined all of the original Winchester factory records at the CFM records office, and that if he needed confirmation, to get in touch with the CFM records office. He had seen a copy of the corrected Antique serial number cut-off table that I published in several documents, and he wanted to know what my source of information was. Brandt, Special Agent attached to the BATF Tucson Arizona office. Several years ago, I received an email (see below), followed by a phone call from Creighton L. They do not use Madis’ book, or the erroneous information listed on the so called “Winchester” (Browning Arms company) website. The BATF uses the DOM information as obtained from the Cody Firearms Museum records office. Has anyone seen anything in writing, or any definitive information, from ATF regarding what numbers they are using to define antiques? I have tried to contact numerous ATF offices to get a clarification, but can not get past voice promps. Reading some posted information it is stated that ATF is using the Winchester factory information regarding manufacturing dates, which are Madis numbers. #ANTIQUE FIREARM SERIAL NUMBERS SERIAL NUMBERS#I have several 1894s and 1892s that by the serial numbers listed on the Winchester factory site and Madis are made 1896-97, antiques.
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